[Discussion] Do Hotkeys give an unfair advantage?
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Joined: 23rd Jan 2016
Rank: BFLevelTwo
Likes 17
13th Sep 2016

So, UrbanCamper and I were having a discussion last night while playing together in Battlefield 4 Server #1. The conclusion to the discussion was that I would post in the forum to see what the general public thought about our discussion. Here’s what we talked about. I will paraphrase our conversation. UrbanCamper, you are welcome to correct my paraphrase if you see an error.

UrbanCamper (UC from now on): I’m clicking my mouse as hard as I can to get into the vehicle.
Me: Oh, I usually have a macro that clicks for me. I don’t have it set up because I’m on my new computer right now.
UC: That is against the terms of service for BF4 and against the rules of MIG servers as it gives an “unfair advantage”.
Me: Oh, I didn’t realize that. I won’t set it up.
UC: Don’t mention it again.
Me: Okay, understood. I won’t set it up. But my question would be “Does a 144Hz monitor give an unfair advantage as well?”.
UC (a little angry): You know the answer to that. (Suggesting that no, it does not count as an unfair advantage).
Me: Why does a 144Hz monitor not count as an unfair advantage?
UC: Because it is something you can BUY from a store. Macros require 3rd PARTY SOFTWARE that to be installed.
Me: Okay, understood. I won’t set it up.
UC: Maybe you should post in the forum to see what everyone else thinks. I could be wrong.

When I say “macro”, I mean the G-keys on my Logitech G710 keyboard. This requires 3rd PARTY SOFTWARE to enable.

Arguement #1 - It gives unfair advantage to the user because the user doesn’t have to click, they can just hold the G-key down.
Counter-Arguement #1 - 144Hz monitor also gives unfair advantage to the user as they get more than double the “information” from the game compared to a 60Hz user.

Arguement #2 - Something you can BUY is okay (144Hz monitor). 3rd PARTY SOFTWARE is not okay (Logitech gaming software).
Counter-Arguement #2.1 - Does Teamspeak count as a 3rd PARTY SOFTWARE? It gives an “unfair advantage” to the users (in terms of better teamwork) compared to those who don’t join Teamspeak. What about users who have Overwolf installed. This is another 3rd PARTY SOFTWARE that enables TeamSpeak users to know who is talking, enabling them to be even better at team communication.
Counter-Arguement #2.2 - Does having a mouse with adjustable DPI levels an unfair advantage to pilots? It is something you BUY (mouse) but that also requires 3rd PARTY SOFTWARE to enable (Logitech gaming software).

The ultimate question: Can I or can I not use my Logitech G-keys to do whatever task I set them to do? Is it legal or illegal?

I would ask that if anyone is going to reply to this thread, please keep the conversation civil. I look forward to the discussion.

Thank You,

edit: formatting and colour


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Joined: 21st Jan 2016
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Likes 1066
13th Sep 2016

Macros are against EA TOS, there is no argument to be had. If you are caught using macros you will be banned.

DPI does not require a 3rd party software as you say as it can be lowered or raised using in games options.



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Last Edit: 13th Sep 2016 by Angry_Cuban13
Joined: 21st Jan 2016
Rank: BF Admins
Likes 1066
13th Sep 2016

Think of it this way, if you can't do it in/ set it up through in game options then it is not allowed, so if you need a software to set up a key to do the shooting for you then you probably should not be doing it.



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Joined: 21st Jan 2016
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Likes 1066
13th Sep 2016

Macros was a topic that was previously discussed to great lengths in a forum post and you can read more here: http://www.migaming.us/29 ... sidered-cheating-w3p

Ignore the ending as it turned into a circle jerk....



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Joined: 23rd Jan 2016
Rank: BFLevelTwo
Likes 17
13th Sep 2016

Understood. Thank you for your input. I have not set it up. I will not set it up.

DPI, I was referring to on-the-fly DPI adjustments. I know for a fact many players use this (including MIG). This is a button on the mouse that lets you jump from, say 2000 DPI, to 5000 DPI (without entering in game settings). This requires the Logitech (or other mouse brand software) to configure.


Last Edit: 13th Sep 2016 by FullThrottle099
Joined: 21st Jan 2016
Rank: BF Admins
Likes 1066
13th Sep 2016

QuoteUnderstood I have no set it up. I will not set it up.

DPI, I was referring to on-the-fly DPI adjustments. I know for a fact many players use this (including MIG). This is a button on the mouse that lets you jump from, say 2000 DPI, to 5000 DPI (without entering in game settings). This requires the Logitech (or other mouse brand software) to configure.
Okay so I get what you're saying about the DPI but to my knowledge you don't necessarily need the software to increase or decrease your DPI, you can simply use the buttons on the mouse but I can see how it can be seen as an "unfair advantage" and when the macro topic came up I actually tried using this as part of my argument about macros and increasing/decreasing DPI are two different horses.

I owned a Cooler Master mouse which had the function to increase/decrease DPI with the touch of a button. I increased the DPI to 2000 permanently because it made sense to use high DPI on infantry only and I am currently using a Corsair M65 (I think?) and I can adjust my DPI settings on the go. This is a side note but I don't see the point of increasing/decreasing my DPI as I play fast paced games so if my DPI drop then I can't 180 quick scope bitches.




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Joined: 23rd Jan 2016
Rank: BFLevelTwo
Likes 17
13th Sep 2016

After reading the other linked thread, I can see that the other thread deals more with "adjusting recoil" and such while actually running around and playing.

What my question was related to was clicking quickly by use of a button to get into a vehicle quicker, and really mostly to be lazy. No one really gets hurt from this, other than someone doesnt get a vehicle. I can also argue that these are 2 different horses. One is clearly "hacking", while the other is a bit of a grey area (although definitely towards "hacking" after talking to you).

But, I think I got my general answer. Don't do any keyboard or mouse related hotkey things.


Joined: 21st Jan 2016
Rank: BF Admins
Likes 1066
13th Sep 2016

I am not against the whole vehicle thing but that is MY personal opinion and it certainly does not speak for every admin/member of this community, and I know people who have set up their extra mouse keys for different things such as 320's, Med Kits, Defibs, etc.



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Joined: 21st Jan 2016
Rank: Registered
Likes 145
13th Sep 2016

Same here. I am not against a vehicle spawn macro, it is the norecoil ones that I hate. We have a lot of old fuckers that play, and probably use such a macro for getting into vehicles....as their arthritis prevents fast clicks

I just think it is funny that EA/DICE actually endorse macro enabled peripherals.


Praetorian (Banned)
Joined: 17th Jan 2016
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13th Sep 2016

Quote....as their arthritis prevents fast clicks
cough...cough...Rock...cough

...





Server 10


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Joined: 19th Jan 2016
Rank: Member
Likes 213
13th Sep 2016

just debounce the left mouse switch lolz


̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐ M ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐i ͐ͩ͋̂G ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐
̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂S ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐UP ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿eR-̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐HA͓͉̝̳̦̘̮̖̬ͧ̓̒̔ͮN͔͎̝͉̥ͩͫ̏s

Joined: 23rd Jan 2016
Rank: BFLevelTwo
Likes 17
14th Sep 2016

Typically, you need a 3rd party software to debounce mouse keys. Also, it kinda has to be functional in its usual way while actually playing if you wanna kill anyone lol.

You could also make the change on your mouse at a hardware level. But I think this would also count as an unfair advantage as this is not something everyone can do, as it requires some electronics expertise. Not something you can buy off the shelf.


Joined: 19th Jan 2016
Rank: Member
Likes 213
14th Sep 2016

QuoteTypically, you need a 3rd party software to debounce mouse keys. Also, it kinda has to be functional in its usual way while actually playing if you wanna kill anyone lol.

You could also make the change on your mouse at a hardware level. But I think this would also count as an unfair advantage as this is not something everyone can do, as it requires some electronics expertise. Not something you can buy off the shelf.
hehehe  : D



̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐ M ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐i ͐ͩ͋̂G ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐
̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂S ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐UP ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿eR-̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐HA͓͉̝̳̦̘̮̖̬ͧ̓̒̔ͮN͔͎̝͉̥ͩͫ̏s

Joined: 19th Jan 2016
Rank: Member
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14th Sep 2016

just imagine the crazy polling issues and the queues..


̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐ M ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐i ͐ͩ͋̂G ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂ ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿ -̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐
̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐ ͐ͩ͋̂S ̗͓̘͓̺̑̆ͭͬ͐UP ̥̺͐ͩ͋̂̿eR-̮͈͓͎͉͓ͩ̆̓ͪ̐̐HA͓͉̝̳̦̘̮̖̬ͧ̓̒̔ͮN͔͎̝͉̥ͩͫ̏s

Joined: 3rd Jun 2016
Rank: Member
Likes 121
14th Sep 2016

You like to call people out?

Here is my input.

I do not take kindly to you throwing my name up all over this post.(more then a little angry.)

Adding a macro to click on vehicles gives you an unfair advantage to acquire said vehicle over people that are also trying for it. If you use a macro for that what else do you use them for in game?

In my opinion your not to be trusted. Once a cheater always a cheater. YOU'RE A CHEATER.



Last Edit: 14th Sep 2016 by UrbanCamper
Joined: 21st Jan 2016
Rank: BF Admins
Likes 1066
14th Sep 2016

Locking thread before it becomes a shit show.



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